Genealogy of The Clan Gregor - 85 - Descendents of Gregor (George) in Perth

[1] With Thanks to Dr Neil MacGregor for making this connection to Hew Murray in Perth, and identifying supporting evidence listed below:
The biggest problem is that this family of MacGregors in Perth had been using the alias Johnstoun well before 1603. A son, or more likely grandson of the George who was baptised .26/12/1674 appears to have had 11 children between 1616 and 1638 under the name Johnstoun except one - Nanse in 1627 where he was George Johnestown or McGregour. So why would Dauid MacGregor or perhaps his son David, use Murray as an alias instead of Johnstoun?
Furthermore, the family of David Moray/Murray 1654-66 are the first of the name in the Perth OPR. More than a dozen familes with the name are found from 1670 to 1700.

"1575. June 25. Advocatis against McGregor and others, George McGregour alias Johnstoun, Johne and George McGregor his sones, Duncan Mc Gregor & Burgesses of Perth to have broken Lawborrowis.3 delayed till 15 Jan. next. [Lawburrows is civil action in Scots law initiated by one person afraid of another's possible violence)
" 1580. July 28. Precept of (royal) Charter of confirmation of Feu Charter by George Balfour Commendator of the Priory of Charterhouse of Perth, to George Makgregor alias Johnestoun of the half of the Charterhouse yairdies.
" July 3 1581. Precept of Charter Royal of Confirmation of Feu Charter by Adam Forman Prior of the House 'Vallis Virtutis' (Charter house) near the Burgh of Perth to George McGregor alias Johnestoune, burgess of the said burgh of the forty shilling land of the forest of Bynzemoir in the barony of Glen Dochart and shire of Perth. Privy Seal.
"1583. May 15. Ane letter maid to James Lord Doune his aires &a of the escheit quhilk pertenit of befoir to Duncan Bane McRobb alias McGregour in Craigrostane and now pertaining to our soverane Lord through being of the said Duncane Bayne McRobb alias Mc Gregoure, denounced his Majesties rebell and put to the home, at the instance of Lord Doune from whom he had stolen ' a quhyt meir and ane foill and ane mirkgrey meir/ Same date at Perth, assisa : In a retour of John Murray afterwards 1st Earl of Tullibardine, one of the persons quoted is George McGregoure alias Johnestoune elder burges of Perth. He is named as an arbiter for Edward Pitscottie apparent of Luncarty Nov. 8. same year.
" July 1603. Item paid by ordinance of the said Lords to Andro Ross for inbringing and presenting to the Council Duncane (name of Johne Dow scored out) MacGregor of Angrie ; as the warrant of Council with the said Androis acquittance, upon the resset thereof produced upon compt bears. "Letters to charge George MacGregor burgess of Perth, George MTatrik, Archibald, George and John MacGregors and Dougall MacGregor dwelling in Perth to compeir personallie before the Council the 26. of this instant resolved to change and alter their surnames of MacGregor and to take them to another famous and honest surname. Treasurer's Books.

It should be noted that no reference has been found to corroborate the name change of Griogair, grandson of the Dean of Lismore who was born ~1542 to George, burgess of Perth. Against this, Amelia records Williame McColchollum, Malcolme and George McColchollum his sonnis, and thair complices. Apud Perth, 15 die mensis Marcii, 1563-64.
And " 1624. Jan. 20. Commission against certain McGregouris..... James McGeorge VcEane VcRobert Stewart, and George his brother"

This seems an unlikely connection. Far more likely is that Gregor, on moving to Perth, took a name more acceptable to the Lowlands. He also used Johnstoun as an alias for his surname MacGregor - referring back to the founder of his sept Eoin Riabhach "Grizzled John", the vicar of Lismore. The Dean's father, Dougal Maol,(Dougall the Bald or Tonsured) called patronymically Dougall Johnsoun

[2] Following discussion with Gordon MacGregor on this family. I have modified the page to reflect Gordon's view:
The George who married Janet Burry died in October 1592 and he was executor to that wife in 1583, so he cannot be identical to the person who died in 1564. Also, he was still alive at the entry of his two sons and son-in-law to Burgess of Perth in 1567.
Even if it were George, younger, who died in 1592 (which I do not think is the case as he was alive in 1603), George, elder, husband of Janet Burry, is proved to have been alive in 1583 when he was executor to her.
George, younger, died by 15 December 1604 when his son Gregor was served heir to him in four bolls of victual to be uplifted from the barony of Pitfour (C22/3/192).
To me the genealogy runs:
I. George [1] born circa 1510-20; burgess of Perth, married by February 1543 to Janet, daughter of William Burry (she d. on 9 October 1582), and died in October 1592 having had issue;
1. John, eldest son in 1567 had at least one child, Katherine, named in her grandmother's Testament.
2. George [2] (see below).
3. Janet, married George Boswell.
II. George MacGregor alias Johnstone [2] styled second son in 1567, alive in 1603 and died before 15 December 1604 having had issue;
1. Gregor who was served heir to his father on 15 December 1604.
2. John, b. 1571
3. George, b. 1574
4. David, b. 1576.
George [1] not being identical to Gregor who was killed in 1564, he was contemporary to him.

[3] 1557-58. Jan. 31. Preceptum legitimationes Gregorij McGregour et Dugall McGregour bastadorum filiorum naturalium Domini Jacobi McGregour (Sir James McGregor, Dean of Lismore) in communi forma &a apud Edinburgh ultimo Jan. - Privy Seal. “In 1557, Gregor Macgregor, son of the deceased Sir James MacGregor, Dean of Lismore, as became the head of a small, but independent sept of the MacGregors, and with a due regard to his safety, bound himself to Colin Campbell of Glenurchy and his heirs, ‘taking him for his chief in place of the Laird of MacGregor,’ and giving him his calp. “In 1557 Gregor and Dougall MacGregors, natural sons of Sir James Macgregor, receive letters of legitimation; and in 1574 Dougall MacGregor appears as Chancellor of Lismore.

[4] The Perth OPR (387) begins very early, otherwise this MacGregor-Murray connection would not have been possible. Unfortunately there is a large gap in the record
The record begins in 1561, but there is a gap from 1581 until 1614 for births and 1653 for marriages.

[5] Gillespic (Archibald) Entered here as another son of Gregor, children in Perth parish 387: [blank] 18/2/1570; [blank] 28/2/1571; William 8/7/1574; William 8/7/1575

[6] "1575. June 25. Advocatis against McGregor and others, George McGregour alias Johnstoun, Johne and George McGregor his sones, Duncan Mc Gregor & Burgesses of Perth to have broken Lawborrowis.3 delayed till 15 Jan. next.
Eoin / John, a son of Gregor, children in Perth parish 387: Dowgall 15/3/1570; Margrat 9/8/1573; Elspet 24/1/1574; John 21/8/1580

[7] "1575. June 25. Advocatis against McGregor and others, George McGregour alias Johnstoun, Johne and George McGregor his sones, Duncan Mc Gregor & Burgesses of Perth to have broken Lawborrowis.3 delayed till 15 Jan. next.
Griogair / George?, a son of Gregor, children in Perth parish 387: Gregor 11/2/1570; Johne 17/2/1571; George 26/12/1574; Dauid 11/3/1576; Marjory 18/7/1580

[8] Assumed to be Dauid MacGregor, baptised 11/3/1576 in Perth.
" July 1603. Item paid by ordinance of the said Lords to Andro Ross for inbringing and presenting to the Council Duncane (name of Johne Dow scored out) MacGregor of Angrie ; as the warrant of Council with the said Androis acquittance, upon the resset thereof produced upon compt bears. "Letters to charge George MacGregor burgess of Perth, George MTatrik, Archibald, George and John MacGregors and Dougall MacGregor dwelling in Perth to compeir personallie before the Council the 26. of this instant resolved to change and alter their surnames of MacGregor and to take them to another famous and honest surname. Treasurer's Books.
The Perth OPR in the 1620s has births registered to David Moray and David Murray. I initially thought they were two families, but it is probably the same one.
1. David Murray: bapt Robert 12/9/1619; [blank] 28/9/1620; Bessie 4/8/1623; Margrat 19/12/1624; David 21/1/1625; Robert & Elspet 29/6/1626; Robert 12/9/1628; David 4/10/1629
Three of the five boys appear to have died as evidenced by three Roberts (1619, 1626 and 1628) and two Davids: (1625 and 1629)
Three girls were baptised: Bessie 4/8/1623; Margrat 19/12/1624; Elspet 30/6/1626 OPR Baptisms: MURRAY, ROBERT; DAVID MURRAY/; M; 12/09/1619; 387/20 51; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MURREY, -----; DAVID MURREY/; U; 28/09/1620; 387/20 63; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MORAY, BESSIE; DAVID MORAY/; F; 04/08/1623; 387/20 93; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MORAY, MARGARIT; DAUID MORAY/; F; 19/12/1624; 387/20 105; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MORAY, DAUID; DAUID MORAY/; U; 21/01/1625; 387/20 106; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MORAY, ROBERT; DAUID MORAY/; M; 29/06/1626; 387/20 120; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MORAY, ELSPET; DAUID MORAY/; F; 30/06/1626; 387/20 120; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MURRAY, ROBERT; DAUID MURRAY/; M; 01/02/1628; 387/20 138; Perth
OPR Baptisms: MURRAY, DAVID; DAUID MURRAY/; M; 04/10/1629; 387/20 158; Perth

[9] Gap in the OPR (387) for Perth. Baptisms blank 1581-1614; marriages blank 1581-1653
Family of David Murray and Kathrine Broune:, Issobell 15/3/1653; David 19/2/1654; Henrie 218/2/1655; Andrew 25/10/1657; Hew 11/11/1660

[10] Gap in the OPR (387) for Perth. Baptisms blank 1581-1614; Family of George Johnesone in Perth (For Nanse 29/4/1627 he is George Johnestown or McGregour): George 6/8/1616; Gregour 17/11/1619; Isabell 17/6/1621; Archibald 7/9/1623; Margarit 6/7/1625; Nanse 29/4/1627; George 3/8/1628; Johne 2/1/1631; Patrike 22/4/1633; Helen 20/9/1635; Joseph 4/6/1638
From the evidence of a close DNA match it is suggested that James Sampson MacGregor may descend from this line.

OPR Baptism: JHONSTONE, GEORGE; GEORGE JHONSTONE/; M; 06/08/1616; 387/20 18; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESONE, GREGOUR; GEORGE JOHNESONE/; U; 17/11/1619; 387/20 53; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESTOUN, ISABELL; GEORGE JOHNESTOUN/; F; 17/06/1621; 387/20 71; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESONE, ARCHIBALD; GEORGE JOHNESONE/; M; 07/09/1623; 387/20 93; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESTOUNE, MARGARIT; GEORGE JOHNESTOUNE/; F; 06/07/1625; 387/20 111; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESTOWN, NANSE; GEORGE JOHNESTOWN OR MCGREGOUR; U; 29/04/1627; 387/20 129; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESTONE, GEORGE; GEORGE JOHNESTONE/; M; 03/08/1628; 387/20 144; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESTOUNE, JOHNE; GEORGE JOHNESTOUNE/; U; 02/01/1631; 387/20 171; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESONE, PATRIKE; GEORGE JOHNESONE/; U; 22/04/1633; 387/20 196; Perth
OPR Baptism: JOHNESONE, HELEN; GEORGE JOHNESONE/; F; 20/09/1635; 387/20 221; Perth
OPR Baptism: JHONSTON, JOSEPH; GEORG JHONSTON/; M; 04/06/1638; 387/20 245; Perth

Register of Deeds 1578-82: George McGregour alias Johnstoun burgess of Perth [wife Janet Burroch] Margaret his daughter XVIII 36

[11] Many more Murray/Moray families in Perth OPR after 1660: The possible siblings of Hew are David and Henrie
David Murray & Margaret Blair 3 sons, 3 dtrs 1693-1699: Margaret:7/1/1693; John 24/4/1694; James 20/8/1695; Jean 12/10/1696; Issobel 27/1/1698; Alexander 24/4/1699
David Murray & Rachel Martine 4 sons, 2 dtrs 1678-1697: David 6/1/1678; Johne 17/2/1680; Thomas 30/4/1684; Rachel 23/10/1692; Agnes 2/12/1694; James 4/4/1697.

[12] Many more Murray/Moray families in Perth OPR after 1660. The possible siblings of Hew are David and Henrie
Henrie Murray & Janet Alexander 3 sons 1675-1677: Johne 9/1/1675; James 23/6/1676; Henrie 26/11/1677. Thereafter possible second marriage to Jean Lying -
Henrie Murray & Jean Lying 3 sons, 3 dtrs 1684-1699: Charles 19/7/1684; Henrie 27/7/1686; Jean 30/3/1692; Marie 26/12/1694; Robert 31/1/1697; Isobell 18/6/1699

[13] This family baptised 3 sons named Robert. I have assumed that only the third one survived.
b.12/9/1619 and 29/6/1626 and 1/2/1628

[14] This family baptised 2 sons named Dauid. I have assumed that only the second one survived.
b.21/1/1625 and 4/10/1629

[15] Robert Sampson MacGregor has a close DNA match to Hew Murray with descent from Robert McGregar who married Jean Kego in Govan, Lanarkshire on 24/7/1705
Robert Murray had son Robert 24/7/1666 in Glasgow (see Note 16.) MacGregor name became legal after 1660 (although banned again in 1693) so at some point this Murray father or son resumed the name MacGregor
Children of Robert McGregar and Jean Kego are: John 28/10/1705; George 21/12/1707; Mary 24/9/1710; Daniel 23/11/1712; James 18/9/1715; Robert 24/12/1717; John 28/4/1720
Robert Sampson MacGregor is thought to descend from George
OPR Marriage: MCGRAGER, ROBERT; JEAN KEGO/FR230 (FR230); 24/07/1705; 646/10 296; Govan
OPR Baptism: MCGREGGER, JOHN; ROBERT MCGREGGER/JEAN KEGO FR60 (FR60); M; 28/10/1705; 646/10 101; Govan
OPR Baptism: MCGREGAR, GEORGE; ROBERT MCGREGAR/JEAN KEGO FR66 (FR66); M; 21/12/1707; 646/10 113; Govan
OPR Baptism: MCGREGGAR, MARY; ROBERT MCGREGGAR/JEAN KEGO FR74 (FR74); F; 24/09/1710; 646/10 130; Govan
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOR, DANIEL; ROBERT MCGREGOR/JEAN KEGO FR81 (FR81); M; 23/11/1712; 646/10 141; Govan
OPR Baptism: MCGREGGAR, JAMES; ROBERT MCGREGGAR/JEAN KEGO FR87 (FR87); M; 18/09/1715; 646/10 155; Govan
OPR Baptism: MCGREGGAR, ROBERT; ROBERT MCGREGGAR/JEAN KEGOE FR92 (FR92); M; 24/12/1717; 646/10 164; Govan
OPR Baptism: MCGREGGAR, JOHN; ROBERT MCGREGGAR/JEAN KEGO FR103 (FR103); M; 28/04/1720; 646/10 175; Govan

[16] No sign of a marriage of Robert Murray and Elizabeth Kilpatrick. Glasgow OPR has a gap in marriages 1654-1660. All children record in Glasgow parish, except Jeane (1672) in Canongate, Edinburgh.
Children James 27/10/1663; Robert 9/2/1665 (presumed died); Robert 24/7/1666 (mother as Elspeth); Elizabeth 1/8/1669; Ralph 2/2/1671; Jeane 14/7/1672; Kathrein 18/6/1676
OPR Marriage: MURREY, ROBERT; ELSPETH GILPATRICK/FR918 (FR918); 22/11/1657; 696/40 42; Newton
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, JAMES; ROT. MURRAY/ELSPETH KILPATRICK; M; 27/10/1663; 644/1/50 242; Glasgow
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, ROBERT; ROT. MURRAY/ELIZABETH KILPATRICK; M; 09/02/1665; 644/1/50 266; Glasgow
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, ROBERT; ROT. MURRAY/ELSPETH KILPATRICK; M; 24/07/1666; 644/1/50 293; Glasgow
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, MARIE; ROBERT MURRAY ELIZABETH KILPATRIK FR305 (FR305); F; 12/09/1667; 453/10 300; St Andrews and St Leonards
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, ELIZABETH; ROT. MURRAY/ELIZABETH KILPATRICK; F; 01/08/1669; 644/1/50 339; Glasgow
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, RALPH; ROT. MURRAY/ELIZABETH KILPATRICK; M; 02/02/1671; 644/1/60 13; Glasgow
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, JEANE; ROBERT MURRAY/ELIZABETH KILPATRICK FR1596 (FR1596); F; 14/07/1672; 685/3/50 179; Canongate
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, JONET; ROBERT MURRAY/ELIZABETH KILPATICK FR827 (FR827); F; 26/07/1674; 692/2/30 172; Leith South
OPR Baptism: MURRAY, KATHREIN; ROT. MURRAY/ELIZABETH KILPATRICK; F; 18/06/1676; 644/1/60 66; Glasgow

[17] Neil says that present day, Robert Murray in Australia and Robert Sampson MacGregor share three SNPs and they have a 3 and 5 SNPs after that which would suggest a common ancestor around 1700+/- 60 years. i.e. 1640-1760. That would suggest David Murray (b1629 Perth) to be the earliest through to the 1750 generations in both Perth or Ayrshire (Kilwinning). This was calculated on there being a mean of 4 SNPs but arm has 5 which would potentially take it back one or two generations meaning 1640 back to 1600.
Descent of Robert Sampson MacGregor: Robert b.1666; George b.1707; John b.1750; John b.1781; William 1814-1849; William 1842-1906; James Stephen 1880-1965; James E W 1905-1972; to James Sampson

[18]
NOTE New Year began on 5th April, so dates in January February and March appear to be in previous year

OPR Marriage: MCGREGOUR, ALEXANDER, VIOLET JAIKSOUN/; 18/09/1575; 387/10 252; Perth

OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, ANDROW; ALEXR. MCGREGOUR/; M; 24/05/1570; 387/10 85; Perth

OPR Marriage: MCGREGOUR, JHONE; JONATT FOWLIS/; 23/08/1562; 387/10 230; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOR, KATHERYNE; JOHNE MCGREGOR/; U; 26/08/1565; 387/10 45; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOR, GEORGE; JOHNE MCGREGOR/; M; 08/08/1566; 387/10 54; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, JONET; JOHNE MCGREGOUR/; U; 02/10/1568; 387/10 68; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, JOHNE; JOHNE MCGREGOUR/; U; 29/12/1569; 387/10 80; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, DOWGALL; JOHN MCGREGOUR/; U; 15/03/1570; 387/10 100; Perth - 15/3/1571
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, MGRET; JOHNE MCGREGOUR/; U; 14/06/1573; 387/10 135; Perth

OPR Marriage: MCGREGOUR, JOHNE; CRISTAN FARGUSON/; 03/12/1571; 387/10 242; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, MGRET; JOHNE MCGREGOUR/; U; 09/08/1573; 387/10 138; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, ELSPET; JOHNE MCGREGOUR/; F; 24/01/1574; 387/10 159; Perth - 24/1/1575
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, JHONE; JHONE MCGREGOUR/; U; 21/08/1580; 387/10 207; Perth

OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, WILLIAM; GILLESPY MCGREGOUR/; M; 17/12/1562; 387/10 21; Perth

OPR Marriage: MAKGREGOUR, GILLASPY; CHRISTIANE BROUN/FR272 (FR272); 27/01/1567; 387/10 236; Perth - marriage 27/1/1568
OPR Marriage: MAKGREGOUR, GILLESPY; CHRISTANE BROUN/; 15/02/1568; 387/10 236; Perth - 15/2/1569
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, -----; GILLESPE MCGREGOUR/; U; 18/02/1570; 387/10 99; Perth - 18/2/1571
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, -----; GILLESPE MCGREGOUR/; U; 28/02/1571; 387/10 116; Perth - 28/2/1572
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, WILLIAM; GILLESPE MCGREGOUR/; M; 08/07/1574; 387/10 152; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOR, WILLIAM; GILLESPE MCGREGOR/; M; 08/07/1575; 387/10 164; Perth

OPR Marriage: MCGREGOR, DUNCANE, ISOBELL DUNDE/; 23/01/1563; 387/10 232; Perth
- marriage 23/1/1564 OPR Baptism: MCGREGOR, ISOBELL; DUNCANE MCGREGOR/; F; 03/02/1565; 387/10 50; Perth - 3/2/1566
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, GEORGE; DUNCANE MCGREGOUR/; M; 03/10/1568; 387/10 66; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, VIOLAT; DUNCAN MCGREGOUR/; U; 22/02/1570; 387/10 99; Perth - 22/2/1571
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, CRISTAN; DUCAN. MCGREGOUR/; U; 23/11/1573; 387/10 143; Perth

OPR Marriage: MCGREGOUR, GEORGE; MAWSE FLEMYNG/FR276 (FR276); 02/05/1569; 387/10 267; Perth
OPR Marriage: MCGREGOUR, GEORGE; M. /FLEMYNG; 21/05/1569; 387/10 267; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, JONET; GEORGE MCGREGOUR/; U; 11/12/1569; 387/10 79; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, GREGOUR; GEORGE MCGREGOUR/; U; 11/02/1570; 387/10 99; Perth - 11/2/1571
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, JOHNE; GEORGE MCGREGOUR/; U; 17/02/1571; 387/10 116; Perth - 17/2/1572
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, GEORGE; GEORGE MCGREGOUR/; M; 26/12/1574; 387/10 158; Perth
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, DAUID; GEORGE MCGREGOUR/; U; 11/03/1576; 387/10 174; Perth - 11/3/1577
OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, MARGERY; GEORGE MCGREGOUR/; F; 28/07/1580; 387/10 205; Perth

OPR Baptism: MCGREGOUR, -----; WM. MCGREGOUR/; U; 11/11/1571; 387/10 112; Perth